i am interested in the answers for a new poll.
also, feel free to suggest other options, wording etc.agreed in full with the watchtower guidelinesagreed with shunning in general, but not for familywas stumbled by this practice but shunned as instructeddid not agree with the practice and secretly associated with disfellowshipped people .
for me personally, i did not agree with the practice and secretly associated with disfellowshipped people, even whilst at bethel.
Ashamed to say that as a young elder, I sat on 2 committees, that (I can't even type the word) 'ejected' a very old man and then later, his son (father of a large family) both for drunkenness.
A few years later, I resigned, fast-faded and was booted myself. Only then did I realize the hateful suffering that had been inflicted on a family that could have been spared it.
When one employs a term such as 'young elder', one should recognize a likely disconnect with good judgement.
well as the title says it.
i had 3 mormons "call" on me a few minutes ago.
this is the first time being on the other side of the door knocking.
Gojira - well done!
This summer I had a great old gabfest, with 2 very young mormon boys working our town.
They were pleased and surprised, as they said they had yet to meet a JW that would even speak to them! This in a town of about 4500 with a kindom hall in it! and I'm an apostate!
They asked loads of questions. Guess we apostates have to do everything ..sheeesh.
i open this thread as a new topic after receiving an update from atlantis on wbts insurance coverage.. while we are on the subject of insurance , does anyone know if the org.
takes out life insurance on its members ?
recently, it was exposed that walmart and a lot of businesses take out a "special" life insurance on their employees.
Insurance is a huge way to hide/launder million in profits or excess 'donations' .
Off-shore tax havens register as many phoney 'Insurance Companies' as they do phoney 'Banks'
Huge legal firms design, manage and register thousands of 'locally legal' companies on your behalf. They put in place layer upon layer of deception, making it difficult to trace the actual principals and clients..
If a major church or charity wanted to hide donations, they could register some secret, untraceable 'insurance' corporations.... and happily pay themselves way, way too much for insurance coverage...athe same level of secrecy making it impossible for any claims to make it to completion.
Any of those wts lawyers have condos in Turks and Caycos, Isle of Wight, Luxembourg, Cayman Islands, etc... thats where the Mormons hide theirs.
Don't suppose anyone has ever asked how much and who to is the wts making payments?
thw wts likes to play games with their statistics.
one interesting but truly tragic is the number of jwhovah's witnesses who commit suicie.. now i suspect that if a person commits suicide shortly before or after they are disfellowshipped then the elders would say that person wasn't a witness or that they had done something so terrible that they were too guilty to admit it and by their action of committing suicide they pretty much declared they were no longer a jw.. yup fancy talk to make sure any crap didn't fall on them.. so my question.. do you know of cases like this?
if so then can you answer a few more questions.. had this person been dfed or in real danger of being dfed or whatever the equivalent is if they were never baptized?.
Black Sheep-
makes a great point about including not just baptised but those born-in. I would include those even associated from a formative age (3- 18 yrs. ) .
Baptism is not a requirement to have ones worldview and logical/reasoning skill completely perverted by wts teaching. Many taking their own lives as adults, are nevertheless still suffering from abuse or delusions they were subjected to at any of youiths formative stages.
I was an 'elder' during my childrens preteen and teen years and, when my eldest pubescent son developed the classic traits of mental illness. We were viewed as a 'model' JW family (to be presented at our Circuit Assembly as an example.
In reality, we were just hardcore JWs, hardcore critics, hardcore disciplinarians, hardcore ignoramuses, hardcore hypocrites. With a Registered Nurse for a mother, and an 'elder' for a father, my kids had parents who pranced all over two counties pretending to bring 'salvation' to others while not recognizing that we were verbally poisoning the minds of our own beloved children.
When still in high school, my son began to drink, do drugs, listen to hideous, horrifying, vulgar, music. He began to hear and fear 'voices' during that time - but never said anything for years as he thought he was demonized . Where do you suppose that reasoning came from?
Yes many, many, many tormented and destroyed lives, are the direct consequences association with the wts and their teachings.
I plan on doing just that - this coming summer. I may be wearing a kilt (wink, wink)
GfG
if the bible is really a very intricate hoax, what is the objective?.
i've read some theories that it has been used to succesfully make a 'business' of religion.. is this really it?
to make money?.
jgnat -
You never fail to amaze!
What is the significance of the blocks of colours, (I can't make out all the text - old eyes)
go and read it again at acts 5: 11. ananias and sapphira drop dead at peter's feet for "playing false to god/holy spirit" by not giving all of the money to peter that they got from a field they sold.
ananias and sapphira were christians.
they wanted to help the poor and so sold one of their possessions, a field, and gave most of the money to peter.
How's this for a possibility-
The asking price of the field, may well have been be public knowledge (for sale sign), thus Peter and other nieghbours would have an anticipated amount fixed in their minds.
The couple sell the field for a major down payment, and extend credit to the buyer for the remainder. Peter, like the WTS, wants the money NOW.
The couple give him the full amount recieved, but can't commit to the portion on credit.
They may actually have been very poor and the greatest, real security of the poor is a piece of land -much the same even today.
They had no guarantee of the balance ever being paid - what if the buyer, died or fell sick, or cheated them? -all things beyond their control - and they had already given freely, ALL of what little security they had.
Pete knew the asking price of 10 and when he only got 7 or 8, he lost it, without all the facts - much like a modern day Judicial Committees.
GfG
go and read it again at acts 5: 11. ananias and sapphira drop dead at peter's feet for "playing false to god/holy spirit" by not giving all of the money to peter that they got from a field they sold.
ananias and sapphira were christians.
they wanted to help the poor and so sold one of their possessions, a field, and gave most of the money to peter.
no it was not the wtbts.
it was the roman catholic archdiocese.
even dissention within a hierarchical organization cannot guarantee that the rights of individuals will be protected.
AbibleStudent-
Yes the title makes all the difference . I only read this one (last) after passing it over many times, and that b/c of the siren-chasing topic.
Okage's thread title, '' Would this work? Be honest. Brutal, if necessary.'', gave hope that we could do something effective- and within that same day, the first page of comments came from people willing and ready to do so. There are still posters 4 days later expressing the same interest. I offered an idea also, it was discredited, but fair enough...so.. what CAN we come up with that might expose the WT, or cause it to loose credibility, or make it easier for people to leave the WT without family persecution?
I like your idea, okage too, has a great zest for ideas - I feel there will be loads of support on JWN for a decent plan or two, or three....we got some smart caring people here.
Keep the discussion going , maybe on it's original thread... I'm still in, and so are others just today...
GfG
i feel i must preface this with context so as to make the intention understandable: .
to jehovah's witnesses and their apologists, that goal is destruction of truth and the downfall of jehovah's witnesses.
but that's not our goal.
Hello Tec- I always value you viewpoints.
You make a very apropriate point about youthful baptisms. The courts recognize the immaturityof those under adult age, and do not hold them legaly responsible in many situations, especially if duress and pressures have been applied by older ones (a WT specialty).
A letter of refusal from the branch offfice, in response to a well worded request for annulment, should prove sufficient humanitarian need to seek the courts assistance for relief.
The legal ramifications, of punishing someone for exercising their freedom of religion, still intrigues me in spite of my shellacing by Chaserious - who seems to grasp the principles better than I.
Tec, please keep processing these ideas with your unique Christian viewpoint, and share the thoughts that come from it.
GfG
